After the horse has bolted

No one is reading - I'm pretty sure about that.

But with a new spate of bannings, deletions and apparent IP address blocking I thought I would link to the following from CiF - which is six months older than GU sportsblog.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/georgina_henry/2007/03/comment_is_free_is_a.html

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/open_thread/2007/03/freedom_or_fracas_1.html

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/mike_ion/2007/03/deputy_blog_can_blogs_make_a_d.html

Just so they're here if I need to find them again...

MOAB is here

Sean has posted his piece on blogging here:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/02/13/the_sportblog_six_months_on_so.html

I would just ask anyone coming here from it to please read the posts, and not react on impressions.

You are all welcome to post replies.

I should also point out I have never deleted a post from my boards, this is not a criticism of the sports blog - but a defence against any accusations that we are mischief making. Everything that has been said is here to read.

Off topic

Right, I think we've all blogged ourselves to death on the whole banning issue. It reached a peak last week when all the active threads on the GU sports site were closed at once as people got a little 'emotional'.

Feel free to vent here - (I wonder how many posts I can get). I am refusing to comment on the issue or release "Nerbe" (my new alter-ego) onto the blogs until MOAB [mother of all blogs] arrives or as a means to direct comments here.

Also - can someone tell me what Blogidarnosc actually means/refers to? I am being thick here and have no idea.

Oh - and I can get rid of our email addresses if you want - I plan to direct people here in MOAB and there are people out there who dislike what they refer to as "the clique"

Blog of all blogs

Hi guys,

In anticipation of the blogging debate - pencilled in for next week - I think we need to start collecting links.

Put simply, people like to point to Jimmy R blogs, the Puskas thread, and others as examples of a "good blog".

Firstly "good" is entirely subjective.

Personally, one of the greatest blogs I have ever read is

http://www.surreycomet.co.uk/mostpopular.var.1039169.mostviewed.marksman_called_in_to_kill_kingstons_pigeons.php

And it is the comedy that makes it.

A lot of the 'good' blogs according to Sean are populated by about a million posts from the 'clique'

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2006/11/17/best_beckenbauer_platini_zidan.html

Reaching once more for the trumpet marked ebren - I would add this one:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2006/10/12/lost_in_translation.html

And this is my favourite:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2006/12/13/your_journey_to_olympic_greatn.html

See the December 13, 2006 04:57 PM post.

Perhaps this was the nadir:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2006/11/15/in_defence_of_newell.html

But it is also on-topic, relevant, not sexist, racist, or offensive (at least me and HB and KK aren't doing any of these things).

I think we also need to find examples of excellent humour, conversation, debate - anything that springs to mind.

If we are going to do this we need facts to back ourselves up. Anyone can say "I don't like the clique", or "I hate the chat". Specifics are harder to argue against without sounding like a spoilt brat.

Of course - by the nature of the blogs mean we will learn names, and people through their arguments. Agree with some people and disagree with others.

Human nature means that this will turn into a community, and then we will be interested in each other.

I - personally - think the development of a community is an inevitable consequence of the nature of the blog, and once the community grows there will be in-jokes, references to old arguments, and posts directed at each other.

The only way to avoid this would be anonymous posting.

This needs to be mentioned as well.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/film/2007/01/getting_down_and_dirty_in_the.html



Quick update - Jelly was the person banned for the "I thought it was a really good goal", can't quite beleive I didn't get that. Now blogging as Gelatinephoenix.

Oh - and this:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2006/11/03/swedish_chandler_bing_faces_hi.html

Spread the love

On the day the French banned smoking (seriously, I never thought I'd see the day - this is the country that shut down Paris when cigarettes went up to five euros a pack, 60% cheaper than the UK), the offside blog community has been growing.

miro has left the picket, offside has taken his strike to unprecedented new levels and strange new workers have appeared on the factory floor - wearing dark glasses, fedoras (or is that trilbies), overcoats with collars turned up and sporting suspiciously large moustaches. Andrewm is still in splendid isolation - and will not return

I have also discovered that I had blocked non-blogspot users from posting comments to the independent republic of Ebren's blog (this has been rectified) so all are now welcome to post whatever they like (I'm looking at you Marcela).

I can't ban you but I can delete comments, I have already got rid of several off-topic posts and links to Sunderland bongo from Glendenning.

And guitougoal has been in contact, he wants you to all become email buddies with him, guyanthome@mac.com

Offside has left his email in a comment on the last post [can't help you with the login name - look at the blogspot registration, possibly change your username?], mine is floating around somewhere, and miro and andrwm (as well as less well known bloggers such as Margin, MocneyJim, dogfacedboy, and cabezon) can be reached through me if needed (sense of power growing - becoming more Irish - adopting more and more cynical tone... )

And feel free to speculate on the newbies names below - I have been far too unsubtle already

Latest banning debate here:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/01/29/football_weekly_19.html

More people banned, picket lines widen

Okay - this is escalating.

List of the banned: Me, greengrass, and two others (email me at ebren@hotmail.com and you will go on the list).

Those on strike: Offsideintahiti (GG can see the candle), miro, andrewm (possibly others).

I've posted the full talk policy below - but some of the antics from the moderators are beginning to resemble that of a dictator gone bad.

If you treat us like children, we will behave as such.

The moderators and journalists have access to our email addresses, and I know this for a fact.

Once, many moons ago, I posted something on a Paul Doyle thread.

He replied to me, explaining that he recognised his mistake, had changed his article accordingly, and modified my post to reflect this and so as not to make me look silly.

Now - if people are on the verge of being banned could we not have a "yellow card" email? Would that not be common courtesy, especially in light of the fact seani has praised several of those banned/on strike in the past.

Also - if we know WHY people are complaining we can moderate our behaviour accordingly. I'm pretty sure no one is going out to cause offence.

Random bannings don't help. Like Stalinist purges they just seem to result in paranoia, and a jumpy population that doesn't know what's happening and isn't conducive to creating good discussions.

The actual talk policy states there will be a warning before threads are closed down - this is also not being adhered to.

Additionally, and I quote: "We want Guardian Unlimited to be the place on the net where you will always find lively, entertaining and, above all, intelligent discussions. The last thing the net needs is yet another site where any attempt at conversation is drowned out by a few people hurling mindless abuse at each other."

I would add that to delete and ban with no explanation - especially when posts are not obviously "racist, sexist or offensive/threatening language, personal attacks on the writer or other posters, posts that exceed the maximum length, and posts that are off topic [and what does that mean]" is hardly helpful to creating "lively, entertaining and, above all, intelligent discussions".

Any discussion will naturally drift away from the original post - or you would end up with "I thought Rooney's goal was great" posts followed by "I disagree, I think that the build-up play was great, but the goal itself was only very good", which no one wants (and apparently gets you banned).

So that is my request - is it possible to have a "yellow card" email, or an email explanation as to what is causing offence so we can moderate our own behaviour and not be banned?

Cheers,

Ebren

Talk policy exlpained

Right, the moderation and post withdrawals are getting silly.

Today the David Pleat thread was closed down and a lot of posts were deleted during the day (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/01/29/how_strikers_dropping_deep_cre.html ).

Unlike with the Harry Pearson thread on Friday someone from the GU team (step forward Mr Glendenning) did come on and offer reasons as to why things were being deleted, although I feel he might have regretted doing so considering the reaction it provoked.

I am slightly worried others have been banned - if so, let me know (as if anyone's reading this) and I will publish them here.

Oh - and I'm going to publish the talk policy here to try and clear things up a bit.

I really don't think some of what was deleted today (and possibly on Friday) contravenes this.

Talk policy

By posting on this website you are agreeing to abide by our talk policy. We will remove posts that contain racist, sexist or offensive/threatening language, personal attacks on the writer or other posters, posts that exceed the maximum length, and posts that are off topic. Any poster who repeatedly contravenes the talk policy will be banned from posting on the website.

Guardian Unlimited's talk policy

We want Guardian Unlimited to be the place on the net where you will always find lively, entertaining and, above all, intelligent discussions. The last thing the net needs is yet another site where any attempt at conversation is drowned out by a few people hurling mindless abuse at each other.

To make this happen, we will, very occasionally, remove some postings from our bulletin boards, articles, and blog posts. We hope this doesn't seem heavy-handed, and to be honest we don't like doing it, but we believe it is the best way to keep the tone of Guardian Unlimited right for the vast majority of the people who visit.

Why would we remove a message? There are five guidelines we would like you to be aware of:

1. We discourage obscenity and mindless abuse. Personal attacks on other users have no place in an intelligent discussion.

2. We will not tolerate racism, sexism or homophobia.

3. We will remove any content that may put us in legal jeopardy, such as potentially libellous or defamatory postings, or which is posted in potential breach of copyright.

4. While we encourage a wide range of views, we will consider removing any content that other users might find extremely offensive or threatening.

5. Extremely long running discussions slow our systems down for everyone. When a discussion grows to be very large, we will issue a warning on the thread, suggesting discussion is restarted on a new thread. Shortly after this, the thread will be closed and/or deleted. Long discussions or messages will be removed at the editor's discretion.

If you act with maturity and consideration for other users, you should have no problems.

Remember that by registering for Guardian Unlimited you have also agreed to our terms and conditions (http://users.guardian.co.uk/help/article/0,,933909,00.html ).

Backlash

Hi guys.

While I, and greengrass, are deeply touched by the support being shown, I am going to go on record now and say that I categorically do not want anyone protesting, going on strike, or doing anything silly like that.

Don't do anything that can get you banned or would comprimise your enjoyment of the best sports blog on the net (which I still think it is).

Offside - greengrass doesn't want you to leave and neither do I.

Greengrass - I apologise if anything I did contributed to your ban.

Seani's response

Being a blogger of longstanding, and [*sound-of-trumpet-marked-"Ebren"-being-blown*] published Over By Over, Minute By Minute, Game By Game , Fiver, and Knowledge contributer I have Sean Ingle's email address.

So I asked him why I was banned.

He took time out of his day to respond to me, which I appreciated.

I'm not sure if I'm legally allowed to publish the resonse - but in effect he told me that there had been over 100 complaints about the Harry Pearson blog, and that if I was annoyed I should have simply complained about it . He said the moderator's stance seemed fair.

I had decided to try and make my point in a humourous way, in an attempt to get the banter back on topic, rather than report the comment - which always feels like telling tales to teacher.

This appears to have been the wrong option.

So no more Ebren. I now go to join SirOliverReed in exile in a foreign land - far from the halls and sacred places of our fathers.

I deeply appreciate comments made in my favour by other bloggers.

So big hugs to andrewm, bluedaddy, MouthoftheMersey, guitougoal [stop dancing already], offsideintahiti, tonyellis, paulita [don't worry, my messianic tendancies were in place decades ago, this changes nothing], Marcela [down andrewm - it's just a friendly hug], fancaise, Doleywino, octavemouret, miro and others who I can't remember.

Last ever post

I got worried that this second post could be seen as offensive so posted the following:

"Before I'm banned - I feel I should point out that I do not in fact think the moderator is very small or no bigger than my thumb.

"Nor do I think moderators should drink larger and lime (as a previous post suggested).

"In fact I think they are lovely, good looking, successful people who do not in any way wear Red Dwarf T-shirts.

"And Harry is a good writer - although this particular piece I found less funny than others in the recent past."


This apparently is enough to get you banned.

Second post

The last post was - obviously - removed by the moderator.

As a joke (after another blogger questioned why my song had been removed but the "Doesn't Harry look like Billy Bragg" was still there) I posted this:


(to the tune of "thumbellina")

Moderator, moderator, tiny little thing,
Moderator's stance? To the rules they cling,
Moderator, when you come here you delete it all
When we drift of topic, you remove our scrawls

So you're no bigger than my thumb, than my thumb, than my thumb;
Sweet moderator don't be glum.
Now, now, now, ah, ah, ah, come, come, come!

Moderator, moderator, tiny little thing
Moderator dance, moderator sing,
Moderator, what's the difference if you're very small?
When your heart is full of love, you're nine feet tall!

Okay, I've been banned from the blogs - while I am prepared to take this like a man I thought I'd point out exactly what I was banned for.

On Harry Pearson's thread (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/01/26/get_the_autograph_signing_righ.html ) there was a lot of off-topic chatter. This mildly annoyed me, so I posted this:

(to the tune of I need a Hero)

Where have all the good men gone
And where are all the mods?
Where's the street-wise Hercules
To fight the rising odds?

Isn't there a seani there to type on fiery keys?
Late at night I read this dross and I dream of what I need

I need a mod now
I'm holding out for at moderator in the midst of the night
He's gotta be strong
And he's gotta be fast
And his copy has gotta be tight

It needs a mod now
I'm holding out for a mod 'till the morning light
He's gotta be sure
And it's gotta be soon
And he's gotta drink larger and lime
Larger and lime

Doo doo doo doooo
Doo doo doo doooo
Doo doo doo doooo
Aaahhh
Aaahhh

Somewhere after midnight
In the sports blogs that I dream
Somewhere just beyond my reach
There's someone moderating me

Cutting out all the banter and deleting flames for their heat
It's gonna take a supermod not one who's too discrete

I need a mod now
I'm holding out for at moderator in the midst of the night
He's gotta be strong
And he's gotta be fast
And his copy has gotta be tight

When the Richard Williams blogs
And the Pearson and the Hattenstone
That's when the clique comes out you see and makes the blogs their own
But I think I feel it now
I could swear there's someone watching me

Through the wind and the chill and the rain
And the storm and the flood
I can feel his approach
Like a fire in my blood

I need a mod now
I'm holding out for at moderator in the midst of the night
He's gotta be strong
And he's gotta be fast
And his copy has gotta be tight
It's got to be tight…